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Thursday, January 7, 2021

Should Trump Be Removed From Office?

That's a serious question. 

Might it be better for the nation if Trump were removed from office before 1/20/21? There might be some very real benefits to such an eventuality.

First of all, it would draw clear lines among the non-Dem political factions. It's always a good thing to be able to distinguish your friends from your enemies. And to know who the lukewarm are.

It would also unmistakably establish Trump as a martyr to the American cause--martyred through a Deep State hit--in a way that no amount of arguing about the various hoaxes could accomplish.

Think about it. This just popped into my head. Perhaps there are strong counter arguments.


63 comments:

  1. It should be done in the deepest of deep state ways--via the 25th amendment which has an astonishingly low level of accountability for actors who implement it without just cause.

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  2. McConnell won't do it. After all, it takes some level of courage, even to be a traitor.

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  3. According to Wiki,
    "Madison Mayor Dave Cieslewicz said he had *instructed* Madison Police Chief Noble Wray, not to *allow* his officers to participate, in *removing* demonstrators from the building", when leftist protestors took over the Wisconsin state capitol for *weeks* in 2011.
    I find no Wiki reference to *any* calls, let alone *chorus*, for Cieslewicz to be tossed, for this explicit *sabotage* of (what would normally be) expected action by cops.

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  4. With all the over reach by Trumps opponents, I would not be surprised.

    My gut feeling is the GOPe significantly under estimated the anger yesterday among Trump Voters.

    Facebook, Google, Twitter, Democrats, and the media believe they can use yesterday to destroys / discredit Trumps following, as was done to the tea party. Along eith discrediting allegations of voter fraud.

    Will they succeed in their gas lighting?

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  5. No, I do not think it would be a good thing at all, but the Dems are already trying.

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    1. I agree with TexasDude. First of all it would be an incredible embarrassment to a man who has given his all to our country and its people for four years. He should leave office in the usual way, head high. Not with the cloud of the 25th Amendment (mental incompetence or instability) or, God forbid, another bogus impeachment.

      So I say NO!

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  6. As I understand it, if Pence and 8 cabinet members agree, Pence immediately becomes president. If, then, Trump disagrees, it goes to the House and Senate; they have 21 days to act, during which time Pence remains president. I don't think it would require any of the squishes to self-identify.

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    1. What do I then do with my Biden 46 shirt?

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  7. My prediction: They will make an example (martyr) out of Trump one way or the other. Repressive measures will escalate and set off more desperate reactions from our side. The next two years will make the next two weeks seem civil by comparison.

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  8. This entire protest in the capital building is smelling more and more like a Reichstag Fire as a way to kneecap Trump. And it’s working beautifully.

    So far 3 Blm, Antifa types identified in pictures inside the capital. One took a video of the ladies death. 2 in the iconic photo (Buffalo man and fat guy with a beard).

    My guess a couple of outside agitators with inside help.

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    1. The Reichstag fire is the correct historical metaphor / precedent. The operative anthropological lens is the scapegoating mechanism:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoating#Scapegoat_mechanism

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    2. From wikipedia on Rene Girard’s notion of the scapegoating mechanism:

      “This is the point where one person is singled out as the cause of the trouble and is expelled or killed by the group. This person is the scapegoat. Social order is restored as people are contented that they have solved the cause of their problems by removing the scapegoated individual...”

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  9. Some Repubs are now calling for.

    Obama was right, the GOP is finished.

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  10. Lost in the news is the evidence of election fraud that was to be presented. I think that is part of the reason for all the drummed up outrage about the Capitol breach. Anything to suppress evidence of election wrongdoing

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  11. Maybe it was Trump's last card. As an analogy, Trump's four years already parallels Jesus'.

    Came out of nowhere into political arena, fought the money changers and Imperial oppression, sacrificed his political life to increase awareness, betrayed by his closest. If there arises 12 disciples after him, Trumpism might eventually prevail, like Christianity did years after Jesus's death.

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    Replies
    1. With Pence as Judas... just need to identify the other 11.

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  12. It's probably not necessary to remove Trump now.

    I think there were two filters for the GOP. The first was the nomination and election of Trump. Many Reagan, Bush 43 and Bush 41 supporters revealed their true nature. Think of Jeb Bush, Joe Scarborough and Peggy Noonan abandoning and then attacking Trump. Bush 41 said he actually voted for Hillary. McCain's wife endorsed Biden, McCain's campaign manager created the Lincoln Project and recently switched to being a Democrat.

    The next filter was the response to the demonstration in Washington DC on Jan 6. I was surprised at how quickly some conservatives first criticized the demonstrators and then attacked Trump.

    John Batchelor, Instapundit and many of his co-bloggers and almost all of the PJMedia columnists condemned the demonstration. I think 80 GOP congressman and a handful of GOP senators objected to the Electoral College vote but the vast majority of the elected GOP did not object to the obvious electoral fraud.

    To my great surprise, Scott Adams and the bearded occultist pagan Styxhexenhammer666 strongly supported the demonstrators. Politics truly does make strange bedfellows.

    What to make of Ann Coulter? She was strongly for Trump and for the last few years she was against Trump as much as any MSM SJW. Sometimes I couldn't tell the difference between Coulter and Rachael Maddow.

    I think now we know who is the enemy and who is lukewarm.

    The real problem is what to do next? Democrats seem to have a majority of the vote, especially the under 40 vote. Throwing away lukewarm conservatives will make it even harder for conservatives to win elections.

    OTOH, keeping lukewarm conservatives around and waiting for them to stab you in the back ins't a good idea either. That group seems to include Roberts and all of Trump's SCOTUS nominees.



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    1. They have the majority of the fake votes.


      rob S

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  13. What was Obi Wan's admonishment: "Strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
    Tom S.

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  14. They are terrified of him and us to some extent.

    I think this is why Barr appointed the SC on Spygate, to stop Trump from being able dump the information.

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    1. I was wondering abut the same thing. What if the SC was designed to foil Trump, not Biden?

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    2. Wasn't there talk about two years ago that President Trump can just declassify anything, because he is the President? I think that is a very viable theory.

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    3. @Windy Wilson

      Yes he can, except no one can open the doors on special counsel grand jury materials.

      Which is why many of us suspected that Barr's move back in December when all of this classified material was flying out, moved Durham and more importantly his work, into a SC position.

      Despite the fact that a DOJ employee can not be a SC, which also leaves many of us speculating on that being a future excuse to kill off the SC with no conclusion.

      Two birds... one stone.

      Always expect the insututions to protect the institutions and you'll never be surprised.

      Delete
  15. TGP: After Allowing Antifa Domestic Terrorists to Burn the Country Down, FBI Director Wray Vows to Charge Those Who Participated in “Siege of the Capitol”

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    1. Well, if it turns out that Antifa thugs were indeed among the “terrorists” this would be belated and ironic justice.

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    2. Sorry, Mark. I meant to say if Antifa terrorists were indeed among those who participated in the “Siege of the Capitol” Wray would be exacting belated and accidental justice.

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    3. I doubt that anything will happen to the Antifa. They know their own.

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  16. 25th amendment would almost guarantee an insurgency. No more political parties, no middle ground: just "us and them". No one could defeat it, clamping down only makes it stronger. There wouldn't be any going toe to toe with a regular army. As with any other insurgency - a hit here a hit there then the perps vanish into the population. Endless war. It's the LAST thing I want to see happen here, however, when the gov't overreacts, which it will, all bets are off.

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  17. Personally, I contacted a realtor today. My wife and I have been discussing bailing out of CA for six months. I love my native state's weather and geography, but it's time to vote with our feet. But where does one go when the nation is Californicated?

    https://issuesinsights.com/2021/01/07/get-ready-for-the-californication-of-america/

    As I climbed into bed last night, I just stared at the ceiling thinking instead of reaching for my book. It just hit me like a freaking ton of bricks how my hopes for the future of the country had been dashed in less than twelve months. We'll be fine but I weep for my children and grandkids. All I kept coming back to was the thought (pardon my French): may God damn to hell 1) the Chinese Communist Party 2) the Democrat Party and 3) all the corrupt DS actors that have destroyed this country. Damn them all.

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  18. I continue to maintain that the true guiding force, regardless of how they try to disguise it behind ideology or hide it even from themselves by chanting slogans, the core driving force for all leftists is unrestrained narcissism. A key aspect of narcissism is humiliation of others. It is the chief reward, far beyond wealth, sexual gratification, or position. These things are actually merely a means to the end of humiliation. You see it in leftist Twitter, in their political discourse, in their treatment of those they view as being of a lesser caste or class than themselves, think of Robert Denero's rant over his driver being a few seconds late getting out of parking. They can not help themselves. Like Dracula's children they must have that last drop of human anguish to slack their thirst, their proof of power.

    If I am correct Trump, Flynn, Grinnell, anyone that actually stood with Trump will never have peace, but be hounded until they are utterly destroyed. They cannot let it go.
    Tom S.

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    1. Those 3 people are loved by 70+ million. Just as the killing of the unarmed defenseless woman by Pelosi's police will generate some reaction, any harm to those 3 would generate an extremely violent one.

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    2. "the core driving force for all leftists is unrestrained narcissism."
      Not close, on the followers, but on the leaders, not bad.
      I say, it's much worse than before social media, w/ which I have no part, but am told that folks there can't even restrain themselves, when interacting about such trivial subjects as *soccer*.

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  19. “Flynn, Grinnell, anyone that actually stood with Trump will never have peace, but be hounded until they are utterly destroyed. They cannot let it go.”

    Bingo.

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    1. I said it on this site a month ago - it is not enough for Trump to have been defeated. He needed to be destroyed and while a good amount of it has been by his own inept machinations there is no question he has been hounded like almost no other person in history. Like a gazelle being pursued by a hungry cheetah, he has finally been caught. Washington protects it's own. There will be no Hunter Biden scandal, no Durham report, no follow up on the election questions. We can thank Mr. Barr for a good chunk of that. He went in and protected the deep state.

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  20. Now Barr has stated Trump betrayed his office at the speech yesterday.

    Really?

    Did Trump call for violence? No, he did not.

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    1. To my own shame I say this: Barr is a disgrace.

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    2. Seems like most of our elected officials have betrayed their offices in the last 4 years - Schiff, Swallwell, all the democrats not the Senate judiciary committee, Georgia and Arizona Republicans....McConnell, Schemer, Pelosi, Pierre Delecto....every elected official needs to be careful going forward. Mr. Dickens had no idea - the best of times and the worst of times. A tale of 2 countries means that someone out there may just be knitting a scarf with certain names on it.

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    3. They bring a knife, we bring a gun... Who said that?

      Get in the their faces, at the super market, a gas station... Who said that?

      Yet other than conservative and alternative media, silence. Don't ask us now to care, Mr. Barr. Your place in this charade of so-called justice will not be forgotten.

      DJL

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    4. @mark,

      "To my own shame I say this: Barr is a disgrace."

      No shame in believing in someone until they let you down. But big shame in those whom dont recognizing when they have been let down!!

      Too soon to offer you the co-chair position on the "I hate William Barr" club? ;)

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    5. There's no shame from the first kick of a mule. Only from the second.
      My Beijing-born girlfriend who defected to the USA from her government position knew what to expect from Barr. She would always look at me with pity during the many months I insisted Barr would help Trump drain the swamp.

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    6. I was with you, Mark. I really believed that Bill Barr was a good, ethical guy. Had to push back against a fair amount of flak because of my opinion. So he fooled me. Us. Or he meant well and folded. ? Who knows? Who cares? He’s over.

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  21. The amount of hate and fear of Trump the Deep State has is now in our faces. Trump actually did what he campaigned on, leaving these charlatans holding a bag of empty promises with more to come, by the way. Impeaching or otherwise trying to remove Trump from office in these few remaining weeks will certainly make a martyr of him - and even further infuriate those who voted for him. And should succeed or not, Trump will become even stronger. While I would prefer Trump not run again after all of this, I think he would be better served by personally selecting a chosen successor, and not a swamp critter (meaning anyone of either party in congress). His son, Don, Jr., has the same fire as his father and would make a great choice IMO. A new political party, the MAGA party, should be a goal for Trump, post-presidency. After all the knives he's had in the back from the Deep State, it would be an even bigger lasting legacy.

    Somehow I don't foresee Trump posing with other living post-presidents for kumbaya photos in the coming years - or ever...

    DJL

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  22. You an take the boy out of the swamp, but you can't take the swamp out of the boy. Sorry I defended Barr. He's the worst kind of traitor to liberty and freedom.

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  23. With all due respect, Mark, save the martyrs for the church. Trump can still get some important things done in the time remaining: declassify everything! Start with the Hunter Biden laptop, then move on to Anthony Weiner’s laptop, and after that, well, who knows? Of course, that may very well be why there is a chance that 2/3 of the Senate, including any number of R’s, might vote to remove him. That would, in my view, be sheer insanity.
    Martyrdom is also not term limited. As others have noted, his enemies will pursue him and his top supporters to their graves.
    Aletheia

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    1. I think you're dreaming at best.

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    2. And at worst?
      That’s a serious question, too. I am always interested in your opinions.
      A.

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    3. Seriously deluded. There will be no declassifications of any significance. If there are, you get to laugh at me.

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    4. Re declassification: How is that supposed to work? Trump signs it. A couple of days later the twenty copies go out to all the different bureaucracies it has to be chopped through maybe it only gets sent back a couple of times because of some niggling typo. Then phone calls go back and forth to verify it. The lawyers are consulted at every location to confirm the legality of it. Then someone searches to see if any designated mat'l is actually held by that agency. Then the lawyers are checked with again. Then, if it has PRIORITY stamped on, maybe a couple of steps are skipped and the analysts actually go to work reacting, because while the POTUS can declass the law requires redacting. Then when that is done lawyers have to check every line to be sure nothing was missed. Then when the lawyers are finished a message is sent asking where the WH wants 4.5 tons of high quality, bright bond that is completely blacked out over 95% of one side and blank on the other should be delivered. They will promptly receive a reply to hold for the time being because Kamala is just too busy picking her cabinet for her second elected term. So it all goes to storage and gets put right next to the Rosenberg typewriter, so it will be easy to find.

      It's called the Deep State, or the Swamp, for more than one reason.

      As Trump discovered the Presidency struggles to not be impotent much less omnipotent.
      Tom S.

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  24. I think I can speak for a great many of us who felt that Barr was a breath of fresh air after the fiasco of Jeff Sessions. We had great hopes and expectations while extending Barr the benefit of the doubt. Ultimately our hopes were dashed and confidence was betrayed. Again.

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  25. I agree with Mark, no one will declassify anything for DJT now.
    They are too busy getting a place in line on the steps to plunge the knife into him one more time!

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  26. I would very much like to see an "America First" party by Trump. Ran by him like a president running a company, integrated with middle class and business world, collecting fees of membership as well as ad partnerships, training people like him "Apprenticeship" style. That would also take over most of GOP's base without its RINO elements.

    I also have a dream of having Canada First, UK First, Australia First parties, creating a network of people who cannot sacrifice individual liberty and family values.

    I think my dream is somewhat in alignment with CTH's article: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2021/01/07/dan-scavino-relays-a-message-from-president-donald-trump/

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    1. I don't think you actually understand just what happened here. You think those unknowns who engineered this selection of Biden (note- not election- but selection)would allow another Trump party to run? Ever been to Cuba? China? Russia? Even dummies like Chavez and Maduro don't allow that. If you steal power you don't give it back. Unless taken by the barrel of a gun.

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  27. If the democrats had common sense, they would let it go to deescalate this mess. But observations by even a casual observer show they do not have that capability… even in their rare lucid moments. They may be excellent in playing Saul’s rules and planning social engineering… making drowning people think the problem is not enough water, but they never try to understand the second and third order effects of their winning at all cost dogma generates. Hence the situation that we have been heading for is here. They are hardcore nihilist. I guess we had it coming by letting political organizations run our polling stations and ensuring election laws are followed. Nope, not a chance they would cheat, in America that would not be fair…. Not smart.

    Remove Trump from office? Good idea? If that happens, it may be the final push to a serious “come to Jesus moment” and I pray He has been listening to our prayers. It would be throwing a large bucket of gas on a nearly out-of-control fire….. My bet? Stay back or you are going to get burned.

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    1. On January 20th's inauguration as Biden gets sworn in, you can bet a dollar to a donut the MSM will mention Trump more often than Biden. That will be his legacy (and in a good way).

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    2. My thought exactly, AmCard. A huge vacuum will be opening up as the media find themselves with zero to rant about. How many articles can they write on Joe’s sox or ice cream or the wonderful life adventures of Dr. Jill. Zzzzzzzzzzz.

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    3. PS. Will they discover…..Hunter?

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  28. Serious question.

    Will Trump be remembered

    --for defeating Mrs Clinton, surviving numerous coup attempts, exposing the numerous perfidies and outrages of the Deep State and giving Deplorables a voice and hope, or

    --for not stopping the excesses, including unjustifiable excesses, of a fringe element of the Right, after the election was blatantly stolen from him without recourse?

    FWIW, and notwithstanding the relentless MSM spin, when the dust settles, I think it will be the former.

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    1. Something like the unjustified murder of unarmed Air Force veteran Ashli Babbitt could pull the rug out from under option 2.

      Option 1 plus any number of other unlisted wins make it a shoo in…MAGA!

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  29. Going dark....things to do.

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  30. https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/whitlock-ignoring-the-concerns-of-trump-supporters-will-destroy-america

    I don't know Jason Whitlock, a black (largely sports) journalist, very well...but I think he nails it as well as anyone commenting here or elsewhere on the likely consequences of the Elite's war on Americans.

    I don't think we'll be retreating to the 5 o'clock special at the Olive Garden.

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    1. Tx. I'll add that to the new post. He sounds a bit like Gottfried and Carlson.

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  31. Now Pelosi delivers ultimatums to the POTUS, resign or be impeached!
    But if that’s not enough she reveals that she talked to the Joint Chiefs to make sure DJT can’t launch any nuclear strikes.
    Help me out here, did I doze off while she was elected President? Seriously, just who the hell does this woman think she is!
    DJT is POTUS until China Joe is sworn in on the 20th of January!!!!! Aren’t enough exclamation points to express my fury.

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