Saturday, July 31, 2021

UPDATED: Malone Does Italy

I just finished watching a very interesting hour and a quarter interview with Dr. Robert Malone. The interview is in English, but was done for an Italian audience, so it has Italian subtitles. As you can imagine, with an hour and a quarter in hand, the interview covers a lot of ground. It mostly features Malone doing the talking. He've very thorough, very careful to qualify every statement that needs qualifying, but is also quite forthright at times. It's perhaps one of the most in depth discussions of Covid available.

I found his explanation of the Spike Protein's relationship to the vaccines quite enlightening, so I've done a transcript of most of that portion. From there I give a summary of some other highlights--but I couldn't cover everything. If you go on to watch the video yourself, you'll realize it's fairly dense.

Read these excerpts and summaries for what they're worth.

La nostra intervista al Dottor Robert Malone, l'inventore della tecnologia dietro al vaccino mRNA

"[The Spike protein] has an 'open' conformation that it uses to bind to its receptor, and then it undergoes a change in structure that makes it so that the virus can penetrate the cell membrane and stick its own genetic material into your cells and cause your cells to start making more viruses, OK? So this is the thing that we want to block! We want to make it so that this thing can't do that, can't bind to its target! And we would like to have the antibodies that do it. So there are mutations introduced into the Spike receptor binding domain for all of these vaccines that cause it to stay locked into an 'open' conformation. But otherwise it's a normal Spike protein that's produced by the virus when it infects. 

"Now, [Spike] is not only an antigen. There are many other proteins that this virus makes. [Spike] was just kinda the easy thing. We sometimes use the phrase, the low hanging fruit. Things that are easy to pick--not the hard stuff higher up in the tree, but the easy low stuff. Sometimes the low hanging fruit may look easy to get, but maybe sometimes it's a bit rotten--to carry with the metaphor. And what wasn't understood when it was decided to focus only on Spike was that Spike has many activities of its own. It's not just an antigen, it's not just a receptor binding protein--it does a lot of other stuff. A lot of other stuff that the virus uses to manipulate your immune system and your inflammatory response in ways that are associated with the disease Covid, the hyper inflammatory syndrome."

In other words, the production of Spike that the vaccine causes leads to effects in the human body that are similar to the effects caused by the disease itself. This is a very important point, and Malone gets into it in more detail later on. 

"So what we have are first generation vaccines--adenovirus or mRNA--that are genetic vaccines. They put genetic material into your cells, cause those cells to make an antigen and, because of the rush to try to get a vaccine developed as quick as possible, they took the most immunogenic, easy-to-work-with thing, which was the Spike, and they focused on that for all of these [vaccines]. And now in retrospect, maybe that wasn't the best decision, and I suspect that we'll see second and third generation vaccines that use the same platform, the same core technology, because that's gonna be really easy to do ... but they're probably gonna express Spike that has been deactivated so that it's much safer, or fragments of Spike together with other antigens that the virus expresses. Those kinds of strategies. I think we'll see that, and what we're seeing right now are first generation products. And they have some issues."

All that is very understated. Malone goes on to discuss those "some issues", and I personally found "some issues" to be a bit hair raising. He also predicts further revelations regarding side effects for the long term.

Regarding the "rushed" rollout of the vaccine, I'm not as irenic as Malone appears to be. Malone discusses in some detail the failure to conduct what sound like basic toxicological studies on Spike in particular. He's adamant that Spike is toxic and argues strongly that it's likely responsible for most of the side effects. Still, it seems clear that work on coronavirus vaccines has been ongoing for quite a few years, so you have to be skeptical about the notion that 'mistakes were made because of the rush.' Further, Malone is very clear about the issue of safety being paramount with any vaccines. My suspicion is that he was avoiding stepping on certain toes--especially since he indulges in some broadly satirical statements indicated that he's pulling a few punches.

The next question focused on side effects, with special emphasis on cardiac events in children. However Malone's discussion isn't confined only to cardiac effects--it's very informative in general.

As usual he proceeds very methodically.  What follows is a summary--often close to his words--with direct quotes included at times. He prefaces his discussion of side effects by noting that we're finally past the point where anyone is claiming that the vaccines are "perfectly safe." They are not. That is now factually established.

Malone first discusses difficulties in assigning responsibility for the side effects. For example, it's relatively easy to assign myocarditis in children as a vaccine side effect because myocarditis virtually never occurs in children. But how about myocarditis in vaccinated adults? That's more difficult to assign to the vaccines, because myocarditis is more common in adults. However he believes that this cardiological side effect--as we know it to exist in children--is associated with a broader issue of "micro-coagulation" or micro clotting. Whoa!

He then raises the issue of whether all the side effects can be assigned to Spike, or whether there may be other causes. He notes that he himself had Covid and experienced things like "brain fogging". But he then moves on to the similarity of some of the acknowledged side effects of both adenovirus and mRNA types of vaccines to effects of Covid the disease. The common denominator in the vaccines and the disease is: Spike. This, he believes, is a strong implication of Spike in most side effects.

Next he presents a series of questions that need answering regarding the role of Spike and its known toxicity in side effects. How exactly does Spike cause these side effects? How much of it is an autoimmune problem? How much is direct toxicity? How much is indirect toxicity through its binding to ACE2? How much is indirect toxicity through binding to vascular endothelial cells or its causing contraction of periscytes [?]--these are the muscular cells that control vascular tone and clamp down and block flow in micro-vessels? These things are still being researched. But it does seem reasonable that many of these adverse events are attributable to the Spike.

"It looks to my eyes like a lot of things were rushed and they didn't really rigorously look at the toxicity." But lack of rigor seems--to my eyes--pretty inexcusable in vaccine development at this point in history.

Malone doesn't shy away from the implications of his questioning. The failure to rigorously research toxicity issues with Spike further implies that we simply can't be certain regarding the overall safety of the vaccines, due to the failure to do thorough studies of toxicity.

Asked for predictions regarding side effects for the long term, Malone states that it's "reasonably likely" we'll see side effects involving autoimmune problems linked to micro coagulation and anti-platelet antibodies. He also more developments regarding autoimmune neuropathy and neurologic issues generally. He's also particularly concerned about potential reproductive health problems, especially in women.

Finally, he adds that there is "fairly robust data, not officially disclosed," to link the vaccines to activation of latent viruses--shingles, herpes, etc. Conclusion? "We're a long ways away from understanding what the long term health consequences are."


ADDENDUM: In the end Malone also comes down in favor of two strategies: 1) Learning to live with this virus as another endemic coronavirus that will attenuate over time, and 2) promoting healthier lifestyles that strengthen immune systems (controlling obesity, Vitamin D, etc.).

Along the way Malone has much more of interest to add regarding ADE--he presents a rather original explanation of how it works that goes into more depth than usual. It's particularly refreshing and enlightening that in this and other areas Malone stresses that all is not fully understood, that scientists are feeling their way to varying degrees. In such circumstances, the tried and true responses to disease seem preferable to wild oscillations of policy dictated--as we increasingly realize--by woke ideology and raw power political ambitions of the elite.

UPDATE: Apparently Malone thought over some of the way he said things in this interview. This morning he did a short Twitter thread re ADE in which he adopts a far more aggressive tone, much more in the vein of assigning blame--to the FDA--regarding the whole failed development process for these vaccines:

Regarding ADE and SARS-CoV-2 IMO;
1) ADE is historically a major risk for coronavirus vax development
2) Clear ADE signal has not been previously detected with the genetic SARS-CoV-2 vax to date
3) highest risk for ADE occurs during waning phase of vax immune responses [the phase that we're now in]
4) The reports of equivalent (or perhaps higher in vax recip?) levels of virus in vaccinated and unvaccinated is odd.
5) Viral infection/replication is necessary but not sufficient for disease - disease is the patient hyperinflamm response 
6) The clinical trials were not designed to detect ADE, despite it being a major risk for corona vax development
7) FDA specifically acknowledged that ADE was a risk, and suggested focused trials were warranted - but did not require them.
8) I find no trials to rule in/out ADE 
And finally, ADE has many mechanisms. The easiest to explain and understand is facilitation of monocyte infection. So that is the example I use. The mechanism of ADE observed in prior coronavirus vax efforts is not very clear. 

Malone has repeatedly suggested that "regulatory capture"--regulatory agencies being controlled by the corporations they're supposed to be regulating--is a reality at FDA.


  1. This message may not be as salutary as we'd like to hear, but one thing that struck me reading it is how refreshing it is to hear actual data being discussed by somebody in the field who actually seems to know what they're talking about from a medical/scientific pov! The biggest problem with the whole covid thing was politicizing it and all the politicians, most of whom are so incompetent they couldn't get a legitimate job, making all their pronouncements as if they actually knew something. If there's progress to be made, it will be through people like Malone and other qualified researchers going through actual data and tests, and hopefully they won't be hindered by all the saps out there who like to spout off. Another thought- might the vaccine have been worth it to protect us from totalitarianism or worse non-medical problems?

    1. Very true, Tom. One good aspect of Malone's presentation here is that, while he's trying to make the science accessible to generalists, he doesn't dumb it down in the sense of over simplifying. When it's complicated he says so. When the answers aren't there, he says so--like with ADE. He frankly admits that they don't fully understand what's happening, even though they recognize the phenomenon.

      As for politicization, I'm afraid it goes beyond politics in the sense that most of us grew up with and verges into 'ideologization', the new Neognostic cult of scientism and the Great Reset. More on that later today, I hope.

    2. He seems genuinely expert and genuinely frank. One thing I didn't like was his assertion that we would expect to see the Israeli results where more vaccinated then unvaccinated were hospitalized with covid because 80% were vaccinated so they make up a large portion of potential victims. This is at odds with the explanation that the vaccines don't prevent transmission but are supposed to prevent hospitalization and death. He hammers people for quoting that Israeli hospitalization data out of context but glides over the point of what those Israeli numbers might show regarding efficacy, or durability of the vaccines. Mark A

    3. The same thought came to me while I was listening. If the medication is truly effective--which looks disputable now, or not as clear--then the percentages should not be like that.

  2. All this information is nice, it's just a little late for those of us who have had the jab. I keep hoping that there is some little nugget of data in all this that offers a workaround to mitigate or avoid the ADE or myocarditis or whatever and survive the vaccine (in addition to the virus).

    Truly, had I known all this back in February, there would have been no jab for me. "Informed consent" indeed!

    1. Yeah, Malone is very big into bioethics and informed stuff--like the Nuremburg Code:

    2. Agree!
      > no jab for me

      And my twenty something daughter, who had Covid, got the jab - I found out after the fact. My guess so easier to travel internationally.

      What a mess.

  3. During my 37 years of employment in the tech industry (including 22 with a well know computer vendor), one of the early lessons I learned was to always be wary of any product that is the 1.0 version. More often than not, there was inevitably some hardware of software bug that impacted the product and ultimately customer satisfaction. Sometimes it was just a software patch and a few times it was significant and costly to remediate. This "new fangled" vaccines that they espouse are built using software. What kind of patch will they need to put out to correct whatever they missed on what I personally would consider to be not 1.0, but more like the 0.99 version?

    I'm still reading through a paper out of Japan that referenced by someone on Denniger that has some of the following claims:

    1. The average half-life of neutralizing activity in the vaccines was approximately 67.8 days and the average time length for their serums to lose the detectable neutralizing activity was 198.3 days.

    2. If BNT162b2-elicited immunity memory is short, an additional vaccine or other protective measures would be needed.

    Still reading for more info...

    1. That paper may be the Pfizer study. And the results were disturbing.

    2. The paper just dropped on Friday based on the date . Not sure if it was out in an earlier form?

      It does seem to focus on Phizer and they talk about testing against many of the strains with similar results. What I take away from this is it's not the "Deadly Delta" that's the issue, but the Phizer vaccine, although less effective on other strains, if essentially running out of gas.

      Line 342:
      “…BNT162b2-elicited neutralizing antibodies blocked the infectivity and cytopathic effect of five different variants of concerns in the cell-based assays using various infectious variants (one Wuhan strain, two alpha strains, one strain each of beta, delta and kappa strains).

      Six selected serums from elite responders showed quite potent activity to the alpha, kappa, and delta variants, while they exerted relatively moderate activity against the beta strain (Figure 4).

      On the other hand, one of the randomly-selected 12 serums from moderate responders showed a marginal activity (NT50 value of 40-fold) and two of them failed to show detectable activity (NT50 values <20-fold)against the beta strain (Figure 4).

      These data suggest that BNT162b2-receiving vaccines who develop high magnitudes of neutralizing antibody should probably be well protected against the infection by most variants;

      however, those who develop only low levels of neutralizing antibody may be vulnerable to the infection by certain variants such as beta strains. If so, to such low-responders to BNT162b2 even after the 2nd shot, an additional 3rd shot may be needed. If the 3rd dose of the same vaccine fails to elicit good levels of neutralizing antibodies, new types of vaccines with different platform have to be stratified.”

      IOW, it's not any of the variants, it's the product. Remember that song when they tell you it's Lambda, Omega, or whatever, "2nd verse, same as the first"?

    3. The study here is from a Japanese group, with some employees from the Japanese company Sysmex. It has developed its own COVID-19 detection test but to my knowledge does not have its own competing vaccine in the works. The Pfizer 6-month study is a separate article, found here:

  4. From Denninger yesterday, in "Two Weeks.....", on how viruses replicate too fast to be fought via non-sterilizing vaccines:

    < Finally, the history of attempting coronavirus *vaccination* is, that it never works. We have tried before, in both men and beast. We've never succeeded. Coronaviruses are notorious, for both evading vaccination attempts, and with their vaccine candidates being non-sterilizing, which in all viruses put evolutionary pressure on them, and result in mutations that evade the protection.
    The problem with viruses in this regard is, that their replication is *exponential*; while mutational evasion of protection for bacteria with antibiotics typically takes years or even decades to occur, because bacteria replicate in a *binary* fashion, that is 1 becomes 2, which becomes 4 and so on, with viruses 1 becomes 1,000 and if that one winds up in recombination, due to cross-infection with something else at the same time, then while the odds of a productive mutation are no higher than they are with any other, the outcome, when you get a productive mutation, is much more-likely to result in escape and *transmission*, because the replication factor is so large.

    We knew this nearly 70 years ago, and it is why the polio vaccine in the US was actually two vaccines; IPV which is non-sterilizing, followed by OPV which is sterilizing -- that is, which blocks actual transmission, and not just symptomatic infection.
    Viral evasion with polio would have been a *disaster*, given the very high odds of paralysis or death resulting from said infection, once you reached childhood or beyond.... >

    1. Makes total sense to me re trying to keep up with the rate of mutations. That effort is a very obvious failure already.

    2. Yeah, and KD continues, on the motives for the big vaccine push:
      < The screaming knob has been turned up to "10", for one reason and one reason only:
      The government, and so-called "experts", all know that, on the data, they're about to lose their audience; trying to tell people who took the jabs, that they just **bought a subscription** of indefinite duration that will never end, is going to lead to a revolt.
      They know this, and they also know, that the odds of persuading someone who hasn't yet taken the jabs, given that fact, which is now out there with Pfizer itself saying that these will be required on an *indefinite* forward basis, are also about to drop to a statistical zero.... >

  5. I just watched the whole interview. Malone is an incredibly interesting speaker. His interviewers were meh, but he could have done the whole thing without their questions.

    This history of what happened after his invention of the technology - written by his wife/partner - is sickmaking, but not at all surprising.

    1. If you liked this one, you'll luv the Warroom interview--linked at the bottom of my new post. I covered the conclusion, because I wanted to emphasize the cultish nature of the response, but go to the end and follow the link to the full interview. Very absorbing.

  6. Truly it feels like we are in an Information War. As I look back to March and April 2020 it was the same kind of battle. We had the Diamond Princess and various highly respected doctors, virologists, and scientists all pointing out that the CCP flu was not the Apocalypse being proclaimed by the media and tech platforms. We had the best arguments and stats and data and studies and several generations of established medical practice on our side. And we still got locked down, and lives abd businesses sacrificed.(Just because this is an info war doesn't mean there aren't real casualties). Now here we are again locked in another info battle over forcible injections and I don't see too many politicians on our side willing to do battle for us. In fact, I can't think of a single GOP governor who will even mention a peep about stopping the injections for further study let alone the harm they are doing.

    1. This virus and our responses to it reveals just how important free speech actually is.