I agree with those who maintain that, from a strictly legal point of view, he almost certainly shot three criminals in self defense.
However, that won't be the end of the story and it doesn't mean that either Rittenhouse or the other knuckleheads he was apparently with were behaving sensibly. He shouldn't have been on "riot duty"--contrary to what he told the Daily Caller, that wasn't his "job" because he wasn't trained for it. Rittenhouse's lack of training as well as the lack of training of the others he was with, showed in how events went down. They clearly had no coherent plan for what they intended to do if they were confronted or even surrounded by an aggressive and hostile crowd. The result was they got run out of the area they claimed to be defending, so from that standpoint they were ineffective.
That said, the people who hold the greatest responsibility for ALL the violence in Kenosha following the arrest of Jacob Blake are government officials. Above all, --and, above all, WI governor Tony Evers who turned down President Trump's offer of 500 National Guard troops to help an overstretched local law enforcement contingent.
Further, Rittenhouse was 17. I'm not an expert on IL or WI gun laws, but a cursory bit of research leads me to believe that he was not legally allowed to own or possess the rifle he was carrying in either state--no matter that WI is an "open carry" state. Gun laws can be a bit complicated, but it seems clear enough that he was in violation of IL law and almost certainly of WI law. Beyond that, whoever gave him access to the rifle is probably in serious trouble--at least in IL.
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Naturally, we're finding out more and more about him as the day goes on.
I've read in one place, but as far as I know it remains unconfirmed, that his father is a police officer. Accepting that, the picture we appear to be getting is of a teen from a broken home, who perhaps idolized his father's profession, and desperately wanted to grow up as a strong male role model. Not a bad kid, probably a good kid--and, again, I believe he has a strong chance of getting off the charges that have been bandied about by WI authorities. Nevertheless, he showed bad judgment in getting involved with a group that was in over their heads. Hopefully he'll get control of his life going forward, as the phrase goes. In the meantime, he'll certainly be in trouble over the gun possession at an absolute minimum, and the person who allowed him access to the gun will probably be in much bigger trouble.
The Chicago Tribune reports additional details:
There’s one absolute truth about Kyle Rittenhouse, ....
He idolized police.
His Facebook page, which was deactivated Wednesday morning after his bond court appearance, pays repeated homage to law enforcement, including a picture of him holding a long-arm rifle and framed with the “Blue Lives Matter” logo. ...
The young man also has a years long affiliation with local police cadet programs, with photographs on social media showing him in full uniform complete with a badge, arm patch and trooper-style campaign hat. The Grayslake, Lindenhurst, Hainesville Public Safety Cadet program had pictures of Rittenhouse participating in its activities on social media before its Facebook page also was taken down Wednesday.
Yet it was Rittenhouse’s own local Police Department that arrested him around 5 a.m. Wednesday in Antioch, where he lives in an apartment complex with his mother. ...
...
Rittenhouse attended an Iowa Trump rally in January, and video from the event shows him cheering for the president from the front row. The teen also posted a video from the rally on one of his two TikTok accounts.
His other TikTok account contains a video of himself firing a semi-automatic rifle at a target, while the song “Sail” by Kreepa plays. The rifle in the video, which was posted earlier this month, appears identical to the one he was seen carrying Tuesday night.
... It’s unclear why Rittenhouse decided to involve himself in the unrest in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake, ... In videos posted Tuesday night before the latest shootings, an armed Rittenhouse can be seen hanging out with older men who are carrying weapons and saying that they are protecting a boarded-up gas station.
Breitbart adds further detail about Rittenhouse's activity earlier in the day:
A Getty Images photographer appears to have captured a photo of Rittenhouse earlier in the day, though he is not identified in its caption: Volunteers clean graffiti from a high school near the Kenosha County Courthouse following another night of unrest on August 25, 2020 in Kenosha, Wisconsin. (Scott Olson/Getty Images)
You can watch a video of some of the libertarians who showed up, "forming up" to protect property in Kenosha. One of the knuckleheads can be heard telling the Antifa/BLM crowd: "As long as you f*ck with the government and not with each other we are with you!"
GASLIGHTING: the shooter was a libertarian who said he was in support of the BLM movement— ELIJAH RIOT (@ElijahSchaffer) August 26, 2020
Also said he supported their right to protest and target government property
The group wasn’t even all white & openly said they were there to protect BLM
VIDEO EVIDENCE DOESN’T LIE https://t.co/mRS9za94rJ pic.twitter.com/B1AwigZ4Fl
That's not a look that the Trump campaign wants associated with it, I don't think.
The point being is to NOT place yourself in these types of circumstances; as upside down as everything is anymore the authorities will give the real lawbreakers a pass & indict you simply for having the audacity in trying to protect yourself (a’la the McClusky’s of St Louie). I own firearms & they are not going one inch outside my residence unless they’re cased up & I’m headed to the range. In the current climate you have to know you’re asking for it if you go outside armed/brandish a firearm. Don’t do what this kid/the McCluskey’s did; stay inside - locked & loaded - & if the mob breaks in you start dropping them & you shoot to kill.
ReplyDeleteDead people can’t sue you.
"Dead people can’t sue you."
DeleteBut if they have survivors, they may be able to sue.
"if they have survivors, they may be able to sue."
DeleteIf the mob breaks in, I'll take my chances on getting sued.
But I advise against traveling interstate to meet the mob in illegal possession of a deadly weapon. It's bound to complicate your life in unpleasant ways.
Delete"against traveling interstate to meet the mob", even if you're packing *no* heat.
DeleteAs I posted in another thread:
For *starters*, before I engage Lefties, I ensure that I've lined-up *at least* one friendly, street-wise *witness* (toting a vid/ audio device).
I'm former military. I CCW. Multiple. I carry on as usual. If some knucklehead creates a circumstance that necessitates protection of self or others with lethal force, oh well. Their choice. Better judged by 12 than carried by six.
DeleteSeems as if all his activity was self-defense, according to various video footage:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/08/what_really_happened_with_those_kenosha_shootings.html
One big problem for him is that under Wisconsin state law, he could not legally carry, open or otherwise. And he put himself there in illegal possession of a firearm.
DeleteCan you tell me what out of state hunters hunt with in Wisconsin? Do they have to buy their weapons in Wisconsin or do they illegally transport them across state lines?
DeleteHunters bring their own weapons:
Deletehttps://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/hunt/deer
https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/hunt/dates.html
https://www.foggytrail.com/articles/wisconsin-deer-hunting-what-every-hunter-needs-know
If only he'd been out in the woods hunting with an adult, eh?
DeleteWhen the city goes lawless, obviously, laws stop mattering. This is, also obviously, never more certain than with teenaged boys and young men. Confused kid with a long gun? As expected. We'll see more of this until or unless civic leaders settle riots down. But as you note, Mark, city and state leadership failed. Isn't this usually part of the story during revolutionary times, such as I now worry we may be facing. Politicians take sides and hope to extract favor from their constituents for so doing. Maybe the center cannot hold, for now. That is worrisome.
ReplyDeleteThese guys were knuckleheads. There are others out there who are not.
DeleteFrom the NYT analysis of videos, Rittenhouse was defending himself from gunfire:
Delete"While Mr. Rittenhouse is being pursued by the group, an unknown gunman fires into the air, though it’s unclear why. The weapon’s muzzle flash appears in footage filmed at the scene.
Mr. Rittenhouse turns toward the sound of gunfire as another pursuer lunges toward him from the same direction. Mr. Rittenhouse then fires four times, and appears to shoot the man in the head. . ."
“ But if they have survivors, they may be able to sue.”
DeleteToo true anymore unfortunately but I was referencing that case years ago when a burglar broke into some guys home & the homeowner shot him - in the leg I think - & the perp sued him & won!
The truth of the matter is that the civic leaders are the ones responsible for these deaths because they’ve abrogated their civic responsibility in allowing all this mayhem.
“Power abhors a vacuum”, no? If the municipalities fail in their fundamental duty to maintain law & order there’s going to be a lot more of this.
This is what you get when you allow Marxists to hijack be your education system & brainwash your children for 50+ odd years.
I happen to have noticed last night that online stores are sold-out of 12-gauge shotgun deer-hunting ammunition. Deer hunting season doesn't start for another month...
DeleteProsecution is overcharging in hope of getting at least murder 3rd degree. Zero chance of 1st degree because it is, frankly, demonstrably untrue.
DeleteI tried to read the Byzantine Illinois gun regs as to age, and it appears that someone his age could be permitted to have a long gun if his parents had signed off and he completed some sort of certification program. Do not trust this as absolute fact, as the posted material was kind of complicated. I don’t usually have comprehension problems, but that Illinois thing needed an editor.
ReplyDeleteIf you can point me toward that, please do. My understanding was that under 18 a kid can only possess a gun if it is being used specifically for hunting, shooting sports, and firearm education. Not amateur LE.
DeleteMark, I haven’t been able to find that webpage. If I hadn’t read it, I wouldn’t have posted it. It also appears in the state law at the section that talks about applying for Illinois's mandatory FOID card -
Delete430 Ill. Comp. Stat. 65/2(a)(1), 65/4(a)(2)(i.
At the section that deals with the application for the mandatory FOID card that all gun owners must have. It begins with:
(a) Each applicant for a Firearm Owner's Identification Card must: …...
_____________
In trudging around I also noticed that Illinois’ law differentiates substantially between handguns (guns that can be concealed) and long guns.
You may well interpret the law differently...
It's complicated--to say the least.
DeleteAn IL resident needs a FOID card to possess any firearm--he needs to have the card on his person. If you're 21 you can apply for a FOID card on your own.
If you're under 21 you can do so if your parents/guardian jump through a variety of hoops.
However ...
My interpretation is that you need to be at least 18 to get a FOID card, regardless of what your parents/guardian may desire.
However, again ...
Those under 18 are exempt from the requirement "while in the custody and immediate control of their parent, legal guardian, or other person in loco parentis to the minor as long as their parent, legal guardian, or other person in loco parentis to the minor has a valid FOID card in their possession."
Rittenhouse was 17, so presumably had no FOID, was not to our best knowledge accompanied by a parent or someone in loco parentis and in possession of a FOID card.
I conclude that he was in violation of the law, and so was anyone who allowed him unrestricted access to the gun.
https://web.archive.org/web/20111026141754/http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm
From what I have seen, the Illinois law re FOID tightened up in 2018 and the minimum age for the required FOID card was set at 18. Even then, with parental consent. That may explain why the site I saw a couple of days ago is MIA. Gone. I searched. Didn’t mention 18 - just 21 and under. Done.
DeleteLots of misinformation out there about Rittenhouse. Although he was seen and videoed walking toward LE vehicles with his hands up. he was obviously not arrested then. After he went home to Illinois, he was said to have been arrested as a “fugitive from justice”, but there seemed to be questions about the accuracy of that report. Police Chief Beth sounds like either intentionally or unintentionally aware of many of the facts about Rittenhouse. The media isn’t helping. Especially the surface-skimming sensationalists known as the MSM.
ReplyDeleteFrom the local Milwaukee paper, sort of a play by play on Rittenhouse. Including his walking toward LE tactical vehicles, which passed him by as they were headed to shooting victims, and ultimately to police vehicle. At that point the article abruptly stops. I find these reports usually have more detail and seem to be more accurate, although much is interpretation of video which was extensive:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/08/26/kenosha-shooting-details-videos-show-scenes-wisconsin-protest/3442031001/
Too many comments from me, but this needed amendment. He was videoed walking toward LE tactical vehicles with his hands up….
DeleteHe was there because the police weren't.
ReplyDeleteActually, the police WERE there and there presence saved his ass.
DeleteIt appeared to me that the presence of the police saved the asses of other rioters/looters.
DeleteIt sounded like there were a lot of other shots fired not directly related to Rittenhouse, or maybe they were fireworks.
Also read a tweet by Lin Wood that various people sent him contact info for Rittenhouse and that he would hook Rittenhouse up with a power house legal team.
Lin Wood -The #FightBack Foundation legal team is heading out to meet with Kyle & his family. Several great local & national lawyers have joined team led by John Pierce
@CaliKidJMP
. Michelle Malkin
@michellemalkin
is also hard at work. True Patriots.
Once John Pierce gets the charges dropped, or wins at trial, Lin Wood will like file complaints for defamation.
DeleteAt it's root, this story is not really about a misguided adolescent in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or even about the esoteric technicalities of firearms laws that may have been violated. Those are routine occurrences in day-to-day law enforcement that rarely get national attention. The truly serious (and far more damaging) dysfunction is the routine election of corrupt and deranged politicians that intentionally, and with malice aforethought, cheer on the rioting and destruction of their communities for craven political advantage. In a very real sense, the only adult truly responsible for the tragic deaths in Kenosha is Governor Evers. He alone failed to lead responsibly and thereby set in motions the events leading to this tragedy. And he was not simply guilty of misfeasance or malfeasance, he had 2 nights of increasing violence to inform his judgement about where this was headed. Is it enough to excuse his corrupt conduct by saying . . . well, the voters can remove him next election? Or should he be held accountable right now as a complicit party in a negligent homicide? Yes, it's a stretch prosecution, but maybe that is needed in order to reign in these miscreant politicians doing tangible and lethal harm to their communities.
ReplyDeleteThe irony is the BLM/Antifa felons calling for the police after taking casualties.
ReplyDeleteIf the left has its way in these cities and the police are disbanded, it will also neuter the prosecutors (no arrests, no evidence). That is when true urban warfare begins without legal or administrative consequences. Only the rising body count will bring back a demand for law and order.
This kind of stuff doesn’t help:
ReplyDeleteVirginia’s Democratic Senate passed legislation Wednesday reducing penalties for assaulting police officers by allowing judges discretion to diminish charges from a felony to a misdemeanor.
Though the bill maintains that such aggression be charged as a felony, judges under the law would be empowered to distinguish between minor and serious assaults while also eliminating the six-month mandatory minimum prison sentence for convictions.
According to the Loudoun Times, the bill passed despite Republican objections that the bill would minimize acts of terror targeted at police as law enforcement units nationwide bear the brunt of historic animosity and anarchic calls to defund their departments.
https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/27/virginia-senate-passes-bill-to-reduce-sentences-for-assaulting-police/
I’m surprised all 3 people he shot had records...
ReplyDeleteIt's like winning a trifecta! But I know you're not really surprised.
DeleteIt means something significant all 3 had records, but I am not sure what. I would have expected some type of college type graduates, true believers, to be members of Antifa / Socialist Groups, not people with records.
DeleteA couple of SWAG's:
1. They are Antifa / Communist Party members that go to these events to cause mayhem? And people with criminal records are attracted to these organizations? Marxist Groups are focused on the criminal underclass for recruiting?
2. Local Low Lifes looking to cause problems and cause damage
3. Somebody paid them to be there as enforcers.
Andy Ngo just had a tweet that the survivor was a member of a socialist group (People’s Revolution Movement) and regretted not killing Rittenhouse.
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1299086141329563648?s=20
Antifa attracts the criminal element, prone to violence. There have been numerous incidents in which idiots with past criminal records have joined up. Sociopaths.
DeleteThese are people who are NOT going to be wealthy enough to riot for weeks and months on end, nor able to get good paying jobs with their criminal records.
DeleteErgo, somebody is providing material support (financial/logistical) for these anarcho-revolutionary lumpenproletariat.
Who's paying for all this chaos? Follow the money ...
@EZ
Delete"Who's paying for all this chaos? Follow the money ..."
My understanding is that the DOJ under AG Barr has been doing exactly that.
I'd be dumbfounded if that weren't the case.
DeleteBarr briefly mentioned it in one of his interviews in the past month or so. If memory serves, he said they'd seen some indications of foreign funding.
DeleteLet’s face it. If he hadn’t pulled the trigger, his Mom would be planning his funeral today.
ReplyDeleteWoah! Rittenhouse is getting some mega highbrow legal help pro bono:
ReplyDeletehttps://meaninginhistory.blogspot.com/2020/08/kyle-rittenhouse.html
Lin Wood? That’s heavy artillery!
Wood is a big name in defamation, but not so much in criminal defense.
Deletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Lin_Wood
Wood is spearheading fundraising for Rittenhouse’s legal defense and is involved in pulling together a legal defense team. Nice scary high profile guy charging out among ‘em! (Great publicity, too. Lawyers love that.)
DeleteLin Wood
@LLinWood
·
2h
Donations for defense of Kyle Rittenhouse should be made to #FightBack Foundation, Inc., a Texas 501(c)(4) Foundation. Please be wary of any other efforts to raise money for Kyle’s defense.
Website for #FightBack Foundation will be online within 6-12 hours for donations & info.
Lin Wood
@LLinWood
The #FightBack Foundation legal team is heading out to meet with Kyle & his family. Several great local & national lawyers have joined team led by John Pierce
@CaliKidJMP
. Michelle Malkin
@michellemalkin
is also hard at work. True Patriots.
Thanks you for outpouring of support.
1:22 PM · Aug 27, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
Wood is indeed a power player in the defamation world. I would think he would have the knowledge and resources to bring on board a first echelon criminal defense team. If they can get the kid off the defamation payday will be that much sweeter for all hands.
DeleteI love following your blog Mark. First time ever I’ve taken issue with your analysis. Interesting point about the guys on ‘riot duty’ being in over their heads. By that logic I suppose George Washington was too.
ReplyDeleteGeo. Washington had extensive military experience before he became CinC of the Continental Army. If you can document extensive LE experience in riot control on the part of the knuckleheads in that video, be my guest.
Deletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington#Colonial_military_career_(1752%E2%80%931758)
Washington was too?
ReplyDeleteAt age 20, he became a major, and commander of one of the four VA militia districts.
Were any of these Kenosha kids majors of anything?
You’re referring to when he was younger and less experienced, when he skinned his knees a few times if I recall. Fort Necessity and the Battle of Long Island come to mind.
Delete@Mouse; Major Disasters. Major Failures and Major Losses.
DeleteGender Studies.
DeleteGood point Mark. It would have been more appropriate for me to say George Washington’s army, in toto.
ReplyDeletePhotos of Rittenhouse, a baby-faced young guy who wanted to be a hero. Policeman or firefighter. PMT.
ReplyDeleteBecause he is 17 they have put him in a juvenile facility, but he’s to be tried as an adult so that will change. A scary prospect, I’d say.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2020/8/26/21403442/antioch-kyle-rittenhouse-kenosha-shooting-black-lives-matter-jacob-blake
Correction: EMT, not PMT.
DeleteNight, all… :)
Shipwreckedcrew’s take on Kenosha:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.redstate.com/shipwreckedcrew/2020/08/27/jacob-blake-had-an-outstanding-warrant-and-a-knife-two-are-dead-and-kenosha-burned-down-for-nothing/
Did the fake medic who took one to his right arm get arrested for his part in the attack?
ReplyDeletein my home state, not relevant to this incident, there is a specific statute that says that if you actually have to use a weapon in self defense, you can't be charged with a weapons violation in connection with the incident. I wonder if there is anything similar in WI or IL?
ReplyDeleteNot to my knowledge:
Delete1. Rittenhouse has, in fact, been charged with a misdemeanor weapons violation in WI.
2. The shooting occurred in WI, so that would be no defense to his gun violations in IL.
I would suggest that if the local IL prosecutor were to press charges against Rittenhouse, he may not fair to well in his next bid for re-election.
Delete