Carr: Are there any new developments? Ya know, it's amazing--Now that you have William Barr and John Durham running this investigation, ... there don't seem to be nearly as many leaks as there were when the Russian collusion hoax was being peddled to the media on a daily basis.
diGenova: First of all, Mueller and his henchmen were all dishonorable people. And let me underscore that. They were ALL dishonorable people. They were stalking horses for a House impeachment fiasco. Next, one of the reasons that you're not hearing anything is that the people who USED to leak are the subjects of the investigation, and so therefore they are extremely tight lipped. Because they're scared you-know-what-less.
Carr: ... I want 'em to be the targets.
diGenova: I think they are ... I can live with whatever John Durham does, because I have total confidence in his selection by Bill Barr and I have total confidence in Bill Barr's ability to withstand this incredible juvenile criticism of him by former FBI Director William Webster, by the idiot Eric Holder, and by all of the morons on Capitol Hill. On the Senate side the Democrats were just pathetic, and of course it goes without saying that the Democrats in the House are really quite mad--they're just mad.
Carr: ... Why is Bruce Ohr still on the payroll, Joe?
diGenova: The only thing I can think of, he's cooperating fully with the investigation that Barr is conducting. There's NO other reason for him still to be there in light of the contours of his behavior that we now know even more fully as a result of further information from Horowitz's report. But, ... he's obviously somebody who's been cooperating--that's the only reason he's still there. And I'm glad. I hope he IS cooperating and I hope they give him a good deal, like a nice misdemeanor.
Carr: ... This guy [Ohr] was the Number Four guy in the Justice Department. His wife is, in effect, on Hillary Clinton's payroll, right? Cuz she's working for Fusion GPS, which is taking money from the DNC and Hillary Clinton. And after they get rid of Steele, purportedly, the FBI, because he's so unreliable, this guy, the Number Four guy in the Justice Department is like the errand boy! He's the messenger boy ... delivering messages from the Hillary Clinton campaign to the Justice Department even after Donald Trump was elected president! How outrageous is this?
diGenova: This, of course, is one of the great things that Durham will be able to flesh out with charges and indictments that explain how the conspiracy worked. And it's quite obvious that people inside Fusion GPS will not go untouched by this. Bruce Ohr, his centrality to the way the information flowed between Fusion GPS, the FBI, Andrew Weissmann, and others, is SO important. And, obviously his wife Nellie Ohr was a contractor for Fusion GPS and was providing, I believe, information from NSA databases. Remember--everybody has to remember--don't forget that part of Durham's investigation involves looking at the illegal searchs of NSA databases from 2014 through 2016. All of that activity is what Judge Collyer, the chief judge of the FISA court found was 85% of all of the FBI searches were illegal. Those 85% of the searches of the NSA databases were illegal searches for American citizens' data which was then used for unmasking for political espionage and for leaking information about them to the press. That is also part of what Durham is doing and it's VERY important, because it's gonna prevent FISA from being reauthorized without major, major revisions.
Carr: We have to have some indictments or some information on the table before the vote! The votes coming up in March ...
diGenova: And my guess is the Attorney General is gonna be consulted on that reauthorization, because he's the most important person in that question. And my guess is that one of the things they're gonna hafta do is, when it comes to American citizens, remember, FISA was originally intended to be for foreigners, but it's got to be over used for spying on American citizens. So now there's gonna hafta be a new process, where's there's gonna hafta be a different standard for American citizens, there's gonna hafta be an ombudsman to protect American citizens, because if they DON'T it's not gonna be renewed. I can tell you that there will be a filibuster in the Senate and it will not be renewed. So I'm not worried about the changes in FISA. FISA is going to be changed. And I'm gonna say something else. They need to have a public hearing--not a closed hearing--with every one of those FISA judges who signed those four warrants, and the first question they have for them is: When you saw the first FISA application for Carter Page and you saw that footnote about a political opposition research, why didn't you stop the entire process right there and bring everybody in who was involved that. They didn't do that ... I want to see them defend that position.
Carr: What's your best guess as to how many of these FISA warrants were as fraudulent as the Carter Page one?
diGenova: Here's the sad story! Knowing what we know now, ... it may be as high as 50%.
Carr: How many of these FISA applications ... were of American citizens?
diGenova: We don't know the answer to that and that needs to be part of the public accounting, because the foreign stuff is simple ... they used the joke of spying on foreigners to spy on Americans purposely, and then they got access on Americans to unmask them without legal authority. And they did so with the consent of senior FBI officials and--more important than that--senior Obama Justice Department officials who KNEW that they were accessing illegally NSA databases. This is Durham's baby. Let me tell ya, this is so bad, so horrible, about what the Obama people did to our surveillance system. It would be one thing if FISA wasn't important, but it IS. It's vital to security and to surveilling terrorists and foreigners who wanna do harm and spy on the United States. Think of what they've done to this very valuable tool that the Congress graciously gave them and said, OK, we're gonna give this to you but we're gonna trust you, cuz we think, even though there's nobody else in that courtroom with that judge, you're gonna be honest.
Carr: I would say FOOLISHLY gave them. Isn't that the lesson of the Founding Fathers? You can't trust human beings! You always gotta have some watchdog, and there's gotta be a watchdog watching the watchdog! That's the problem with the FISA courts, there's no watchdog--it's taken on trust! How can you trust Brennan, McCabe, Comey?
diGenova: Here's the thing. Ordinarily, there would someone in that superstructure of the FBI and the Justice Department who would blow the whistle. But there wasn't. Not a single lawyer, not a single person, came forward. The only person who was honest was Admiral Mike Rogers, who headed NSA. If he doesn't step up this goes unpunished, unknown, un-talked about, because the FISA judges were clueless! I mean, what'd Collyer do after she found all this stuff out? Nothing! There was nothing on the record that she did ANYTHING other than write the opinion.
Carr: ... Were all these judges clueless, or did they go along with a wink and a nod, and know what was going on?
diGenova: I honestly think that she [Collyer] was lazy. These federal judges think they don't owe anybody anything. They are so arrogant! The federal judiciary has become so arrogant, so self adulatory! I'm watching this thing with Emmet Sullivan in the Michael Flynn case and the way he has been just frivolous in the way he's dealt with Sidney Powell's pleadings on the violation of due process on Michael Flynn. Just reading his stuff and listening to it--it's disgusting that a federal judge can sit there and listen to the LIES that the Justice Department committed in that case and literally basically do nothing.
Carr: And they're still foot dragging, too, Joe! I mean, this is Barr's Justice Department, right? Why aren't they just coming clean?
diGenova: I think Barr is letting them commit hari kari. Remember, the guy running that case, Brandon van Grack, is part of the Mueller cabal. I think he's letting them dig their own grave. It’s like in that scene in The Irishman when De Niro's over in World War II and he’s having the German soldiers dig their own grave and he says, you know what, I kept saying to myself, why’d these guys keep digging. They know what’s gonna happen and that’s where Van Grack is. He’s a German soldier digging his own friggin’ grave and he just happens to have a name like Van Grack [that's actually a Dutch name, Joe!].
Carr: I hope so. I've seen in Boston, administration after administration, covering up for crimes!
diGenova: It's not gonna happen here. By the way, Barr owes nothing to these people. He doesn't owe anything to van Grack, he doesn't owe anything to Mueller. Mueller, by the way, it's clear now more than ever as more of this information comes out, how despicable his behavior was toward a sitting president! What a liar he became! The people around him were despicable, all these little automatons from the Clinton organization who became his chief hounds. I mean, what a disgusting bunch of people in Mueller's office--Good Lord!
Carr: I didn't realize it was the Special Counsel's office that went for the fourth application for the warrant to surveil Carter Page. That's on Mueller's plate!
diGenova: They were all party to it, and what it was was, this is why what Durham's doing is so important, because now there's a legal continuum of liability. Remember--she was supposed to win, nobody was supposed to find out about this. She loses, Trump wins, then they gotta find out how they're gonna do this, then they go after Carter Page in order to try to frame the president. This is a bad movie! It's so horrible what you see, what Mueller allowed to happen to the president of the United States! These people are sick, and then when you watch this guy Schiff, who REALLY is mentally ill! That guy, he needs a straitjacket. A padded cell is where they oughta put him.
Carr: Where is John Brennan? I haven't seen John Brennan since Thursday night. Shouldn't he be somewhere pontificating?
diGenova: John Brennan and Clapper--they are where they've never been before. They don't know what's going on, and it's just wonderful to watch them.
UPDATE: Sara Carter has pretty good sources, and this seems very much on point with some of what Joe is saying. Toward the end of Sara's 2:20 she states that Durham has assembled a "huge" staff that's going over "everything with a fine tooth comb." And she means Everything.
One on one with @SaraCarterDC.@SaraCarterDC says possibly everything John Huber was looking at could be turned over to John Durham. That includes the Hillary Clinton investigation. pic.twitter.com/wuEaeSWTER— The Dirty Truth “Josh” (@AKA_RealDirty) June 12, 2019