DiGenova: Mike Rogers Is The "Rosetta Stone" For John Durham

Joe diGenova did a dynamite interview yesterday that puts a lot of things in perspective. In the first half of his interview he addresses the recent news that Admiral Mike Rogers, former head of NSA, is cooperating voluntarily with USA John Durham's investigation (cf. Bad News For The Deep State). DiGenova's remarks here are important for providing a glimpse at the enormous range and complexity of Durham's investigation. Consider--as wide ranging as IG Horowitz's FISA report may have appeared, it didn't even touch most of what diGenova addresses here. Yet what diGenova talks about is crucial to an understanding of the development of the Russia Hoax as we now know it, and therefore to the development of the all important conspiracy case that I've discussed. I most recently addressed the connection between these issues and the development of the Crossfire Hurricane investigation in The Devin Nunes - Dan Bongino Interview--a post that provides useful background and additional legal/administrative material on all this. The scope of it all is almost mind boggling.

In the partial transcript that follows the host questions and comments are paraphrased, but diGenova's words are very literal. He misspeaks a few times, but I've left that as is--although I've interjected some explanatory comments.

"What do you think of the news of Admiral Mike Rogers, former head of NSA, voluntarily cooperating with John Durham?" 

DiGenova: "This is the biggest single development in the Durham investigation to date. We were told, according to published reports, that Admiral Rogers has met "several times" with John Durham, and that, we now know that Admiral Rogers, who was the central figure in uncovering the illegal electronic spy ring--spying--done by the Obama administration, prior to the Carter Page FISA warrants, the spying that went on from 2012 to 2016, involving FBI contractors illegally accessing NSA data. Mr. Rogers discovered that, reported it to the FISA court, all that spying was stopped by her [Collyer, the chief judge of the FISC], and it led to the crescendo of illegal activity by Comey, Clapper, and Brennan. It led to the so-called Crossfire Hurricane investigation, to cover up that previous spying that had been going on. Rogers has an electronic trail of all the spying that went on over five years. He has personal notes--a la James Comey--only this time they are not self serving notes, they are the truth. Mike Rogers I have described as the Rosetta Stone of this investigation. This is the single most important development in this. I have been suggesting for a long time that, ultimately, Rogers would be the key to any criminal investigation. That is coming true. What we now know will happen is, I can be fairly comfortable in suggesting there is going to be a substantial criminal conspiracy indictment involving a lot of people with the electronic spying that was done. By the way, that electronic spying that went on from 2012 to 2016 into the NSA databases was used for unmasking people and then leaking that information to the press. And when the Attorney General talks about the investigating private parties, he's talking not only about GPS, Fusion, and Glenn Simpson and all those people, and Nellie Ohr. He's talking about the contractors who were illegally accessing NSA databases at the request of Comey and Brennan." 

"Are we talking about the unmasking that happened with Susan Rice and Loretta Lynch?" 

DiGenova: "Yes. And I want everyone to remember. In March of 2017, when Devin Nunes went to the White House and he came out and held his famous presser--and he was later criticized for it--everything he said that day was completely true. What he saw when he went to the NSC at the White House that day were spreadsheets that had been produced for the White House of the intercepts, the illegal NSA accessed intercepts, and on it were the names of people, telephone numbers, "to and from" information, which led to the unmasking. That's what this is all about. It is truly remarkable that we have finally gotten here." 

"People need to understand how outrageous it was that NSA intercepts that were supposed to be used to protect us against foreign terrorists and espionage were used by the Obama White House to go against political opponents, opponents of their party. Joe, that's never happened before in our history that I'm aware of."

DiGenova: "It never has, and it is a stunning scandal of immense proportions, being ignored by the Washington Post and the New York Times. And I want everybody to remember: We've been talking on this show for more than a year about the Judge Collyer ruling about the illegal spying by the NSA contractors. She wrote an opinion in April of 2018, where she exposed on the public record all of this illegal spying that went unnoticed and completely unreported on. We talked about it on this station, on this show, repeatedly. That opinion [by Judge Collyer], along with a later opinion by Judge Boasberg on very similar matters, have inside of them all of the--the names of all the people that have been blotted out for purposes of the declassification process. All the people in DoJ and FBI who were involved in this illegal database searching. The three FBI contractors, for example, are named in there but their names are blotted out. She [Judge Collyer] told everybody about this and nobody did anything about this on Capitol Hill except one person: Devin Nunes. Nunes and Admiral Rogers should both get the Medal of Freedom from President Trump. There are huge heroes, American heroes. And Mike Rogers, when he found out about the electronic spying that had been going on for years, then about the spying on the Trump campaign, he not only went to the FISA court and advised them, he went to Trump--as you will recall--on November the 17th, 2016, and warned him about what was going on. At that very point, Ash Carter, the Secretary of Defense, James Clapper, the Director of National Intelligence, tried to get General--excuse me--Admiral Rogers fired. It didn't happen, because Obama was smart enough to realize that if he fired Rogers everything would come out immediately." 

I've recently seen claims that Judge Boasberg, an Obama appointee, is a bad actor in all this, and that CJ Roberts' appointment of Boasberg to head the FISC is a betrayal. Obviously I don't know everything about Boasberg, but my understanding of his actions with regard to FBI coverup attempts is the same as diGenova's--I believe Boasberg has held the FBI's feet to the fire. We'll see.

The other important point in the preceding paragraph is this. In Horowitz's FISA report the focus was largely on the FBI. However, going forward that will change with regard to the illegal spying using the NSA database. DoJ will emerge from the shadows--as diGenova relates in the next response, below.

"Do you think Judge Collyer has been doing enough or do you think there are other steps she should be taking?" 

DiGenova: "Oh, I absolutely do not think she's doing enough. This is too little too late. This is a bit of grandstanding and save your ass kind of stuff by a federal judge. There should've been contempt hearings before the FISA court already. She didn't hafta wait. She knew everything! She knew back in 2018 there was illegal spying, she knew she'd been lied to in the Carter Page affidavits. She knew that way back then. She knew that the Ass't Attorney General for the National Security Division, John Carlin, had filed false annual certifications of compliance with minimization standards on access to 702 databases about Americans. Let's remember what this scandal is about. This is not about illegal spying on foreign nationals who spied. This is about illegal spying on American citizens--with no basis whatsoever! We now know that the spying on Carter Page was completely baseless. He had nothing to do with the Russians. He was cooperating with the CIA. He was never charged with a crime. And then there are literally, I want everybody to understand it, as a result of the 702 database, illegal spying by FBI contractors from 2012 to 2016, where they accessed telephones, emails, text messages databases, about Americans, not foreign nationals. Thousands of Americans were spied upon. What did Judge Collyer do about it? Nothing! Now, I wanna see every one of those FISA judges up on Capitol Hill in a hearing. They need to testify about the Carter Page warrant. In the first warrant, when they saw in that footnote that there was a politcal organization involved in opposition research that warrant should have been stopped right there!" 

DiGenova rightly points a finger at John Carlin, but remember this: When this program of illegal spying was put in place there was a Memorandum of Understanding executed between the FBI and CIA--and DoJ would have had to sign off on it as well. And I seriously doubt that Carlin acted without approval from above. That MOU institutionalized CIA domestic spying, as well. And Robert "Bob" Mueller was FBI Director when that occurred.

By the way, would anyone like to guess who was Attorney General when all that was happening? If you guessed that from February 3, 2009, to April 27, 2015, Eric Holder was the AG, you guessed right--congratulations! Have you noticed that Holder has had a lot to say recently about Bill Barr and John Durham? Holder is one important player who doesn't seem to think that Barr is "waiting indefinitely," or that Durham has not yet "entered the fray."

"Hopefully Lindsey Graham is listening."

In the rest of the interview DiGenova responds to questions with regard to Impeachment Theater. I don't think I entirely agree with the way he frames this, at least initially. He begins by saying that Pelosi can do whatever she wants, but the Senate doesn't have to entertain the articles. That's his initial reaction to the question posed, but when the host, smartly, brings up the real issues, DiGenova changes his ground and agrees with what I've been saying--the House vote is the act of impeachment and it ipso facto transmits the articles to the Senate. So, diGenova hastens to explain, of course the Senate can act--because it's a political, not a legal, question.

I would add that the Senate should act on the articles by changing their rules with regard to impeachment. This is what the WSJ states in an editorial today, quoting Constitutional lawyer David Rivkin. Rivkin maintains that--albeit with good intentions--the current Senate rules violate the Constitution because they prevent the Senate from acting upon the articles that have been voted by the House. Therefore, says Rivkin, the Senate needs to change its rules and perform its Constitutional duty by addressing those articles--one way or the other, whether by dismissing them or by holding a trial.

However, DiGenova makes a point that I tend to agree with and that could end up being very important. He maintains that Pelosi's attempt to game the Constitution and the Senate rules will end up offending at least some Senate Dems. He also has high praise for 'Cocaine' Mitch McConnell, calling him "quietly vicious but also cautious, he's very effective." As DiGenova says, though, McConnell needs to get his full caucus on board. That's his problem and that's his job.

DiGenova finishes up with remarks about Giuliani activities, about his own (and his wife's) representation of Dmitriy Firtash, and about the corruption of disgraced former ambassador Marie Yovanovitch. He maintains that the Biden corruption scandals are not going away. IMO, those scandals will only get worse. We've still only heard tiny amounts re the Chinese - Biden scandal.