John Dowd Speaks Out

ABC News has done a bang up interview with former Trump attorney John Dowd. For anyone who doesn't know who John Dowd is, read his Wikipedia page: John Dowd. Big league player, attorney, big time experience both in the law and in Washington.

I've edited and condensed the transcript of the interview, boiled it down. Read the original for all the detail and the full context, uncondensed, listen to the audio. But it really speaks pretty much for itself. I've bolded what I thought jumps out. Here goes:


ABC NEWS' KYRA PHILLIPS: So, John, word is the Mueller report is going to drop within the next couple of weeks.

JOHN DOWD: I don't think there'll be a report. The rules of the department say, no report.

ABC NEWS' CHRIS VLASTO: So you don't think the public's gonna see anything. You think it's $40 million. Mueller investigated it. And that's it.

DOWD: The idea that you would take that information and make it public, you know, violates the whole concept of the grand jury. What's the grand jury for? To protect the innocent. ... Does that ever get reported? No.

PHILLIPS: Do you respect what Mueller is doing? I know you know Mueller well.

DOWD: Well, I respected it in the beginning. My style is I always trust the other side, until I didn't. In my opinion, on March 5th, we were done. He had everything. He said he had everything. He told me that no one had lied. He told me they had every document we asked for. He told me that it was nothing more. He told me that the president was not a target. That is, he did not have any exposure, that he was a witness subject, which is perfectly normal for someone's conduct you're looking at, but they don't have exposure. What people don't understand about the president is you have too much information in your life. I mean, the amount of information that he intakes every day, gets prepared for, is staggering. And in my questioning him or talking to him--you know, first question, easy. Second question, easy. Third question, he wasn't sure. And he doesn't like being unsure. So he'll guess. There's your trap, right there. It's not whether he lies or not. 


PHILLIPS: John, why didn't you advise him to do an interview with Bob Mueller, just let him sit down with Bob Muller? What were you worried about?

DOWD: What I was worried about is that he really couldn't do it. Because Flynn, Papadopoulos, Gates, I mean, look what Bob's doing', what I call nickel-dime process crimes. I ran a strike force. I ran big corruption cases. I didn't go around, picking scabs and just making any case I could make. And that's where I disagree with Bob.

CHRIS VLASTO: What do you think has taken Mueller so long?

DOWD: I don't know. All I can tell you is what I do know. And I know a lot. Without questioning anybody's good faith, it's been a waste of time. And it's been petty. And it's been bureaucratic. And you don't need to do that. When you're dealing at this level, when you're dealing at this level, you're playing' the World Series, okay? And you don't get down with the petty stuff here. Mueller--all he is a departmental attorney, nothing more, okay? That's it. And by the way, it's gotta go up-- it's gotta go up to Barr.

VLASTO: Well, you must know Barr rather well--

DOWD: I know of him. I had left the department, when he was attorney general. But he was a great attorney general. He did a terrific job. And I am so pleased that he's gonna be back. 'Cause he knows the place from top to bottom. And he's very bright. And he's gonna--he's gonna call it right down the middle and do a good job.

PHILLIPS: That's quite the opposite from what you've said about the leadership of the Justice Department.

DOWD: Well, look. I tried to deal with Rosenstein. Early on, we wrote a letter to Mueller, saying, "Look. Comey's the accuser in this phony investigation. We think there are other issues regarding his conduct, as to the origin of this whole business." Turns out, not only was I right, but Comey admitted there were no facts to investigate the president at all. There was no collusion. Bob said he wasn't looking' at it. So I wrote to Rosenstein. He blew me off. That's not leadership. That's not accountability. So I lost all respect for Rob Rosenstein. And Sessions, I don't know what he was doing. I'm not sure Sessions knows what he was doing’.

PHILLIPS: What's the result? What's the conclusion?

DOWD: Decline. There's no basis. It's been a terrible waste of time. What's worse is let's get on the other side of this, how it all happened. This is one of the greatest frauds this country's ever seen. And I'm just shocked that Bob Mueller didn't call it that way and say, "I'm being used." If I were in his shoes in this thing, I'd have gone to the--I'd have gone to Sessions and Rosenstein and said, "Look. This is nonsense. We are being used by a cabal in the F.B.I. to get even."

DOWD: This is awful. I mean, the corruption at the top of the F.B.I. is staggering. And that's how this all happened. And by the way, look at what the F.B.I. witnesses have said. "I know w-- I know about no collusion." I mean, Comey knew nothing about collusion.

PHILLIPS: What do you say to Trump's relationship with Putin? What do you say to the discussions about a Trump Moscow deal--everything that's out there--

DOWD: There was no deal. Trump believed he could deal with Putin. He's found out what it's like, dealing with Putin. He's been educated, like every president is educated. I remember Hillary, "Let's hit the reset button." I mean, what a joke. But there's nothing out there. There's no project in Moscow. They have every document known to mankind. That's all ginned-up nonsense. But they have all the emails. They have the Sater stuff. They have the Cohen stuff. There is nothing more. And they know it. And not only do they have it, but they've questioned people about it, exhaustively.

VLASTO: But looking forward--for the next two years of this presidency. What do you see?

DOWD: I guess the Hill is gonna do what they're gonna do. And I expect the White House, to the extent it can, will cooperate. But I don't think it'll be shy about its privileges.

VLASTO: How do you think history will look at the Mueller investigation ten years from now, 20 years from now?

DOWD: Not well.

PHILLIPS: Donald J. Trump.

DOWD: Full plate. A man with a big heart who means well, but has had all kinds of challenges. I'm in his corner. You know why I'm in his corner? 'Cause he's the boss. He governs this c